He has many hits on his account, he does not limit himself to one style, and even a 3-year break from music production did not prevent him from making a large career in the music industry. BeMelo told me about his way to the top, the essence of the arrangement or the Polish mainstream. I invite you to read.
I don’t think I can start any other way than by congratulating you on 2 million monthly listeners on Spotify. A great result.
Thank you very much for these kind words. This success is an absolute surprise to me. Last month, I noticed that the number of listeners is increasing day by day, which is extremely motivating, although I don’t usually focus on them. However, in the case of such impressive results, it is worth stopping for a moment, reflecting on them and expressing gratitude.
In the end, the numbers are simply meaningful. If you don’t have them, it’s hard to expect your new issue to get some cosmic views.
Yes, although it is worth specifying that anyone can accidentally make a hit. I believe that it is only this regularity over a certain period of time that gives you the opportunity to evaluate the results. I can’t attribute all the successes to one song like “Taxi”, although of course it had a significant influence on them. It is worth noting, however, the constant series of premieres, which contributed to the achievement of regularity in the results, and looking at the latest issues, you can see that they achieved success not by accident. I am happy with this fact and I am mostly proud of it. For the past 3-4 years, Kizo and I have been releasing numbers every summer that turn out huge numbers every time. At the same time, typical hip-hop numbers like “Colosseum” or my co-productions like “Discopolo” or “Myto” with Gory and Miki, respectively, enjoy great recognition. My debut was VNMa’s “Lines” in general, and in fact a whole series of rap numbers still ahead of me. People are not fully aware that all this is happening by design, and I’m just having fun with the music. It’s nice when at the end of the day each of these styles will sprout interest in some way.
The more successful a person is, the more fans and haters he has. Can you handle it?
Hate goes hand in hand with popularity, and let’s face it, I’m not popular. Perhaps some people know me in the music community, but on a daily basis, when I have more private conversations, e.g. at parties, few realize that I am the producer responsible for the numbers that are playing in the background or can be heard on the radio every day . The lack of this mass popularity means that the hate does not go directly to me. Personally, I do not experience this negative impact. Despite this, I must admit that I follow various news and music channels and notice that my productions are sometimes not fully understood. However, what really matters is our own awareness and beliefs. Of course, it would be fantastic if everyone expressed appreciation for what I create, but at the end of the day, it’s not worth worrying too much about hate, especially virtual. The reality is often different from what we see on the internet. We’re not kids anymore, and sometimes those things don’t matter to me anymore. The example of my cooperation with Kizo perfectly illustrates this – we have known and cooperated practically since I was 16 years old. In the studio, we literally understand each other without words. We do what we feel like doing. During the development process, none of us think about “how people will react and how they will comment on it”. Some songs reflect moods, situations and thoughts that the listener has no access to, and in many cases would not even believe in them. In all that time, I’ve experienced a lot of changes in the musical landscape. From boom bap, oldschool, trap, drill to the productions of youtubers and influencers. Hate has always sold, and that’s just part of the game. By the way, watching the reactions of some influencers to the singles I produce, often in a wider group of friends we just laugh about it, not taking it too much to heart.
And if out of 100 comments, 1 is negative, do you care about it to some extent?
I used to, but I’ve gotten over it. But more importantly, I’ve also learned not to compete with other manufacturers. I mention this because I think it is quite common and harmful. Many producers, beatmakers or creators in general compete with each other, who has more positive comments, who will enter what album, who has what numbers or what awards he won. A certain environment is created in which everyone tries to shine in front of each other. It’s very unhealthy because you’re really focused on making music for other producers/rappers who will appreciate how you chose the snare drum, where you got the unique sounds etc. What they don’t realize is that it doesn’t really matter because music is made for people to listen to it. It was only when I understood this that the greatest successes came. I finally stopped twitching. I’ve come to the point where we’re just working in the studio and if the sample doesn’t sit well with me after an hour, it means there’s little chance of a hit. In general, my flow of action is creating things live in the studio together with the artist. If we see that there is no flow on that particular day and we don’t want to finish the prewka, we just don’t finish it. I focus more on making my music feel good. If out of 100 people 99 feel good, it is a very good result for me. These 99 people may be in a better mood now, having a drink on the beach or hanging out with friends.
Do you leave yourself previews of songs that do not sit well with you at the moment?
Everything I do is saved in my cloud, so there are real gems hidden there that, if they came to light, could electrify the internet. But let’s be honest, when I start to create a piece or beat and initially something doesn’t sit well with me, it usually just disappears. I have a mania for not finishing things, although I don’t do them too much, because the days of making 50 bits a month are long behind me. I think that if you look at my Spotify, where 13-14 numbers came out in the last year, I think I made a maximum of 30 bits. These are more or less the proportions.
Do you ever make a beat yourself in the studio, or is it always created during the recording session?
I am working from home much less now. I used to work mainly in it, because basically there was no other possibility. However, I have come to a point where I can confidently make an appointment with a given artist in the studio and act immediately. So I don’t have many samples made at home. I can reveal that I’m starting to work on my own stuff, and despite everything, I have to work with this material myself at the beginning, come up with a concept, and only then invite someone to perform the song. However, if someone calls me and says that they would like to work with me, I don’t really get into sending packages – I definitely prefer working in the studio. Apart from music production, I normally work, so it all has to be centered somewhere, and the proportions must be maintained. It’s good as it is, because I have my own team and we work together live.
And have you never been tempted to try your hand at Warsaw after such hits?
No, because it’s a constant pursuit. Despite everything, I remember that when I first approached music, that is, before I took a long break from it, we worked with VNM on the album “Klaud N9JN”. The song “Linie” was my debut as a producer and really resonated in the industry. Probably the strongest thing I released at the time. I had a lot of calls from various rappers, many people wanted to cooperate, as many people dragged me to Warsaw. I had various conversations with producers such as SoDrumatic, Sher7ock or Czarny HiFi and everyone told me that if I wanted to act big, I had to move to Warsaw. I thought about it for a long time, but finally decided to stay in Gdańsk. I’m happy about it, because if I moved to Warsaw, the second stage of my career would probably not have happened, which began with the song “Our Summer” with Kizo and Wac Toja. We’ve made quite a few hits since then.
Can you tell us about this second step?
There was a moment when for about 3 years I didn’t do music at all. I was tired and disappointed, especially since at that time I was taking part in the most important productions in Poland. However, the income for producers at that time was not very satisfactory. I’m not going to accuse anyone of anything, because it was a transitional period between the era of CDs and streaming in Polish hip-hop. The conversations then were about much lower budgets than today, and I was beginning to think more of myself as an adult. I was at the point where I needed to start thinking about my future and not just chasing a bunny. So I went back to my normal job and started to cope. I’ve never had to go to her before because I had support from my parents while studying and I made music in my spare time. Even though it was a difficult decision, I don’t regret it. As a result, it worked out for me. For the next 3 years I cut myself off from music production, and the first impulse came only from Kizo, who motivated me to create again. I have a lot of respect for him for that, because he just didn’t forget about me and regularly wrote me messages like “Give me a hit”, “Bartek, you have to make a hit”, “Hit some summer guy.” So one evening I sat down at the computer and in 15 minutes I made a preview of the beat for “Our Summer”. I sent it to him, and after a while he sent me back the video with the chorus. Two days later we had a session in the studio with Wac Toja and that’s how it went.
Was it hard to break into making music after those 3 years?
My adventure with music began in elementary school, so after so many years and so many beats made, it was still in me. You can’t forget things like that. I may not make many beats these days, but I remember making 10 beats a day as a kid. I also don’t play keyboards like I used to, but the tracks I produce are the most successful now. I think the role of the producer is to feel what will get people hooked on the numbers. For example, I pay less attention to technical details and much more to the concept, main melodies, leads or atmosphere. I think that’s the most crucial thing about it all.
Ultimately, music is all about emotions.
Exactly, because you can have cool pics on instagram, cool logo, interesting sound, and people can know you, but at the end of the music, people only remember how it made them feel. They just keep coming back to it. If they don’t feel good, or rather if they don’t feel anything at all, they won’t just listen to your numbers. As an artist, you must be able to translate your emotions into creativity. If there are more people who feel the same as you – then the situation is ideal.
An interesting approach, because most manufacturers are perfectionists.
Correct. I, too, used to strive hard for perfection, but sometimes it led me into a trap of constant revision. It was common for me to spend up to two weeks creating a whole piece or refining one piece, and then suddenly change the concept. I thought at the time that a new idea might be more attractive and unique, so I was drawn into another spiral of revisions. This led to situations where production took up to two months, and I was losing that magical spark that accompanies creation. In the meantime, however, I realized that it is important to convey the emotions and creativity that accompanied the moment of creating a given fragment. If you don’t, you can fall into the trap of endless revisions. Later, the final effect may never reach its full potential, which would have been achievable if I had decided to publish the work earlier. That’s why today I put more emphasis on understanding when my work is good enough to share with others.
The more so that in Poland we have many “experts”, even those journalists who hate everything that goes mainstream. However, it’s hard to call an outstanding artist someone whom almost no one listens to.
This is the crux of the whole situation. I get really annoyed when someone tells us that they are showing something new. Dude, do you think nobody uses the internet? This is a race in which no one participates. If I wanted trueschool rap or drill, I would create it. But that’s over, and the hip-hop that once reigned is no more. 15 years ago it was an underground scene, now it’s mainstream and I really don’t believe that producers or rappers from, for example, Italy listen with delight to what comes out in, for example, Croatia. And those from Croatia are not necessarily interested in the scene from, for example, Bulgaria. Similarly, we Poles do not have to imitate what is happening in the UK or the United States, and what is more, we do not have to judge that their music is good, and what we create and what our listeners like is hopeless. Sure, we can draw inspiration from all over the world, but we don’t live in London, for example, where kids fly around with machetes. We have a different climate here. I believe that our artists do not lack skills, and such imitation of styles from other countries is more of a reproduction than creating connections with native sounds. A good paradox is the so-called latki, which someone can call “hip-hop-polo”, or accuse that it is not very ambitious music. Many of those who say so, later in the summer will listen to this “hip-hop-polo” or, for example, J Balvin and his repeated words, not understanding any of them. Where’s the sense? Each style has its purpose. You listen to different music when you want to figure something out, and different when you’re lying drunk on the beach.
In the United States at one time, rage beats were very popular, which in Poland did not catch on with any great enthusiasm. In such situations, you can often hear that Polish listeners do not understand this style or are not ready for it.
Yes, with us some things simply have their own specific nature. Our weather, people and many other elements create a unique environment. This is where our culture comes from. In the past, I was also such an avid hip hop fan who judged others in terms of creating “real” rap. However, over time, I matured and understood that what makes New York happy is not necessarily better than what makes Warsaw happy. We can inspire each other, draw what is good, without the need to compete for superiority. It’s not a sport. If someone listens to the music you make, that’s fine.
Do you have a specific music market that inspires you and which you transfer to your productions?
My roots are definitely in the widely understood West Coast. Then it went towards drum and bass and house, because I was getting into these vibes and going to, for example, techno parties. I remember that time well. Now I love to mix those styles and for example throw drum and bass bass on trap drums and then add some latin toplines.
With such experiments, I have no doubt that great things come out. However, there are also those that just sound tragic. Do you treat them as part of the search?
There are times when I doubt if this is really it. The law of series seems to be at work here. Now, for example, I’m on a good streak and I like the last four or five things I’ve made. I hope this trend will continue as long as possible. A while ago, however, I had two months where nothing was going well for me. We even had a couple of attempts in the studio, but after half an hour we unanimously decided that it just wouldn’t work and we did other things. It is during this period that it is worth finishing projects that have been started.
It’s probably also such a healthy approach not to do things by force.
Yes, but only at a certain stage of its development. I think when you’re a young artist it’s essential to have an approach where you work on a project until your fingers bleed, you’re tired and you can barely see through your eyes. It’s really needed to get to the right level. At the moment I know what I can do and I can use these skills at any time. In addition, it is also important to have a good day, positive energy and the desire to make music. When everything is right, song creation can be almost automatic. However, when something doesn’t work out, there’s really no point in dwelling on it. Of course, you can be stubborn and push yourself, but deep down you realize that nothing of value will come of it anyway.
As a matter of fact, you’re young and you’re just learning this production, you really can’t let go even on a day when nothing goes right for you. You have to deal with these situations too.
Yes definitely. An additional element that has brought me many valuable lessons is the need to strive to complete projects. When you start your music adventure and prepare to work on a new project, it is important to arrange it and imagine the potential vocalization for it. You can also grab a free acapella to just get the song ready. I am convinced that a solid arrangement is half the battle. Especially nowadays. This may sound like I’m old, but it’s worth mentioning that we didn’t have this kind of access to loops before. Samples from vinyl and later from YouTube were used, but there was a lack of such rich sample libraries, where for a small monthly fee you can find half a million sounds of, for example, “flute” without fear of copyright infringement. Nowadays, when everyone has the opportunity to try their hand at music production, the ability to arrange and create a beat that attracts attention sets us apart from the rest. Making a beat using sampled melodies or popular percussion elements is technically not difficult anymore and you can learn it in a month. However, learning to do things according to the briefs of artists who throw slogans like “today we are doing a smartass” or “hicik for the summer” is a more demanding challenge. You need to understand what exactly is behind these slogans, and then skillfully combine various sounds in an effective way, avoiding monotony and hackneyed ideas.
And such an arrangement skill is the hours spent in the studio, or rather intuition?
I think that it is mostly based on intuition, but the other side of the coin is the experience and the right intuition. Now, when making arrangements, I try to close in 3 approaches maximum. However, I used to make 50 of them. I played these tracks to my friends to judge what was cool and what was not. Then I made corrections and only after that I went with the finished material to the performer. Often it was only on this 50th attempt that I felt that I had achieved the intended effect.
From what you say, it seems that with time comes such confidence in yourself and your own abilities.
Yes, because currently during a recording session in the studio I can, for example, arrange a beat for a specific verse in such a way that even without prior listening, everything fits perfectly. The ability to imagine certain elements and effects allows me to achieve coherence. After that, all that remains is the final stage, i.e. fine-tuning the details. Of course, it doesn’t always work like that, because sometimes I spend many hours perfecting one fragment. However, I can’t remember the last time I made several arrangements of the same song.
And by creating songs with rappers you are friends with, are you able to separate the sympathy for them from this quality-artistic issue?
Of course. It works both ways because I share feedback and I also take criticism because I realize we are working as a team. It is also worth bearing in mind that although the producer plays an important role in creating the song, the vocalist is its main character. Some novice beatmakers think that the production of a song is the dictatorship of the producer. The truth is that each of the creators has his own space, but in the end it is the singer who is the star of this show. If the situation is different, it is probably a sign of, for example, reproducing the number. When you have top artists in the country on vocals, you should rather give them the freedom to show what they can do. Their skills are high enough to attract the attention of listeners. I don’t think it would be very wise not to use it. Of course, there are times when it’s worth giving an idea or helping out, but you have to do it in moderation. The situation is different when, as an experienced producer, you work with a diamond in the rough. Then it is certainly worth to lead such an artist by the hand through the whole process and be a lifebuoy or a filter of ideas. Listening to a 20-second snippet for 4 hours and being objective to get only the cool stuff out of it is a really big skill.
Currently, Polish artists are also probably so aware that they do not make any big gaffes. It seems to me that when newschool came to Poland, there were a lot of texts copied from overseas rappers. In English they sounded cool, but in Polish…
First of all, if we are talking about a rhythmic division, e.g. into triplets, it sounds sensational in English. However, translating it into Polish in such a way that it sounds natural on these triplets is a really great art. It’s similar to winding a text in our language in the way a Frenchman does with a melodic language when he winds up in French to a certain type of beats with a certain rhythm. In our case, we are more like our eastern neighbors because our vocabulary is similar to each other. In American slogans, it is enough to throw three syllables and it already means something. In Polish it is more difficult to achieve such an effect, so it seems to me that some misplaced phrases or treatments may come from this.
In Poland, probably the only person who is able to somehow translate a foreign style into their native language is Miły ATZ. British scale and Polish language. It sounds great.
In general, I have a really interesting story with Nice ATZ. Once I was returning by Uber from a party in Sopot. The driver played great music from the UK. Word to word we started talking about rap, and hearing what details he was talking about, I asked if he also raps. It turned out to be. Moreover, he knew my productions. At one point I suggested that he play something of his own and then I heard some numbers that blew my mind … I was really impressed. When we got there, we continued our conversation while smoking a whole pack of cigarettes. This taxi driver was Miły ATZ, who had not yet officially debuted at that time. What’s more, the songs he presented me were made on brilliant beats. I asked whose, and it turned out that they were also by the then unknown Trump. I remember coming home and wondering who these guys were. Was I that drunk or was it that good? And if the latter, why is it not mainstream. Not much time passed, and Miły released “Czarny Swing” and his career went very forward.
I’m thinking that if you were to agree on a common number right now, it could be a very interesting connection.
I think I even approached him for cooperation, but in the end I couldn’t make a package wide enough to send it to him. Out of respect for Nice, I don’t want to send him things that I know may not be on his level. This is true of basically all artists.
So bouncing a bit. What do you value about music production itself? I hear you’re very emotional about this subject.
I am not sure if I will be able to fully answer this question. But what really turns me on and challenges me is the production side, not just the beat making. Example? When I had just finished working on the album “The Last Dance” with Kizo, the question suddenly arose if I could create something that would be suitable for the KSW gala. It was a real challenge for me because I had to suddenly turn 180 degrees, live up to expectations and deliver something at a high level in a completely different genre than what I had been working on for the past few months. This is what I value the most in music production – the ability to flexibly change the style and form of my songs.
Well, “Colosseum” is a top for me when it comes to beat. Also great respect that you can switch over in such a short time and make beats at a high level in really different styles.
Thank you very much. I have always strived to smuggle my personality into my tracks, regardless of the prevailing trends. I think this is the most difficult of all. For example – Timbaland has been creating songs that have been on the world charts for 20-30 years, and Lex Luger has come and gone with the 808 Mafia trend. Rediscovering yourself as an artist is the hardest part of the game.
But since you do songs that vary in sound and style, I would find it hard to believe that there aren’t requests from different rappers. On the other hand, you mentioned that you don’t send parcels much, so it’s probably that kind of story too.
Surprisingly, I rarely get inquiries from rappers. I believe that it is related to the fact that most of my activities take place outside the capital. Nevertheless, every time I go there for 1-2 days, I establish more cooperation than in the entire previous year. The situation is as follows: while staying in one or the other studio, a really huge number of people scrolls between sessions, which allows you to freely establish relationships. Not to mention parties. Of course, you could create tons of beats and throw them anywhere and to anyone, but that’s not exactly my approach. When collaboration doesn’t come naturally and someone doesn’t respond or ignores messages, I don’t push things either. After all, it’s not my main source of income, so I take it easy.
Because it’s just an addition to your main income, it seems to me that you can also have more slack in production. And that means a lot.
Back in the day, with a lot of pressure to produce a lot of beats in a short time, there were times when I had an internal struggle. It was no longer about “creating cool stuff” at the moment of inspiration, it was more about “I have to do something and it has to be good.” Plus, someone had to buy it and it was stupid to admit it, but sometimes it didn’t matter who it was. If it didn’t work out, I got stressed, but that’s how I gained experience. Today I feel relaxed because my finances don’t just depend on it. In addition, he feels maybe not so much as fulfilled, but simply confident in his music. My productions reach no. 1 on the radio, Spotify, YouTube, they have hundreds of millions of plays and achieve the status of diamond records … In fact, I don’t have to prove anything in music, so I only do what makes me happy. And most of all, I enjoy creating with my friends. If others like it, great, but I won’t break down if a given number doesn’t sit down either. I’ll upload a new track in a month, maybe he’ll eat this one. All this gives me a lot of freedom in the studio.
This is also a bit of a paradox, because sometimes the more you want, the more you fail.
It will sound funny, but I have a work nature similar to Brazilian footballers, who are often criticized for being too lax, which affects their careers. However, the same looseness makes them play with the ball like no other. Finesse does not come from rigid rules. I think it may have a lot to do with being a musician, because when you have fun creating numbers, everything works. Let’s also remember that this is the entertainment industry today, not underground hip-hop in 2005, where Poland is gray, no one has hay and everyone is sad. Then it would actually be easier to create with depression. To this day, there is a bit of a misconception that if something is sad and gets into your psyche, it means that it is good. I turn off these numbers. Despite everything, going to the beach in Gdańsk, for example, I prefer to play something that will make me feel better.
I guess that’s a good end to our conversation. But one last question. What is your biggest dream right now?
I’m going to release my original project that will resonate. I will focus on singles first. I’ve had all sorts of ideas for the last 8 months, but I’m finally starting to put the beats together in my head. I think I’ve found something that makes sense, and I’m ready to get to work. Although I haven’t mentioned it before, I usually start by imagining the beat before actually creating it. I’m not talking about literally calculating the melody note by note, but rather about the rhythm, the sound of the instruments and the emotions that I want to convey. Then I sit in front of the DAW and do, for example, three different rehearsals. Then I know if it works or not. However, releasing production records is a bit more complicated. As a rapper, you can create an album on free beats from the internet and gain recognition with your style. However, as a producer who strives to create original singles at the highest level, you need cooperation with top artists, which is not always easy to achieve.
IG: @bemelo_mts